Council Minutes, October 4, 2021

Council Minutes, October 4, 2021

Great Council – Oct 4, 2021


Baron Frithuric Ulman and Baroness Fiore Leonetta Bardi:

Hello. We are heading into colder months along with the pandemic. We would like to continue social engagements through the winter. Possibly ice skating on the frog pond. Please suggest other possibilities.

Archery and Thrown Weapons championships are currently ongoing at practices.


Seneschal Lady Aaradyn Ghyoot:

East Kingdom Seneschal officers happened last night. More information on the new Covid Vax and Test policy will be forthcoming.

Reminder of the Policy Review schedule

Oct 4: October meeting of Great Council

Final round discussions

Final wording for proposed amendments

If you proposed an amendment, please supply the final wording tonight.

Administrative corrections confirmed by attending officers and populace

Oct 6:

Final wording of Proposed Amendments and Administrative Corrections published for the benefit of the populace in accordance with our Policies

Nov 8:

November meeting of Great Council MOVED one week (to 2nd Monday) to allow for a full month between the publishing of the final wording and the Voting meeting.

Final Vote on the proposed Amendments to the Policies


Unknown: Will final wording be published on the baronial website?

Seneschal: The miniscule is published on the baronial website, and that will contain the amendments.

Same Unknown: To clarify, past changes have been on their own page.

Seneschal: This will be done and the calendar will be updated.

Reminder to Officers, Guild Heads, and Activity Heads:

Please send me a short description of your office/position as soon as possible.

Seneschal of the Canton of the Towers Lord Thorvald Olafsson Kveld-Hrútssonar:

No Report.

Secretary Lord Donato:

No Report.

Chancellor of the Exchequer Kara Irini Bint Todori:

No Report

Chancelor Minor Theo of Carolingia:

A survey will come out in the near future regarding what folks are interested about in terms of youth and family activities.

Chatelaine Lady Patience Faircloth for Baroness Isabelle:

Newcomer Night on Monday October 18th, 7pm-9pm and the link will be posted to FB and sent via email as the date gets closer. It will be on the calendar. Please feel free to suggest topics for newcomers night.

I am also happy to report that we continue to have a steady stream of new folks joining us on Newcomer Nights, and the majority of them are staying involved in virtual and in person activities rather than checking out Newcomer Night and then disappearing. The baronial calendar/Facebook page continues to be a huge source of information for them to find details on where/when/how to join things, and so I very much appreciate everyone who is able to provide detailed announcements and updates on those platforms so that I have great resources to direct them to.

Golden Gryphon Pursuivant Lord Richard Heyworth:

Herald office hours are, as always, the day after council. In this case, Tuesday, October 5, 6:30-9:30pm

Knight Marshal Baron Valerian of Somerset:

No Report

Minister of Arts & Sciences Cathain Reiter:

Please welcome Cathain Reiter to the role of A&S Minister and Naeme Sugawara to the role of Deputy A&S Minister.

There has been a call for entries into the third online East Kingdom Arts and Sciences Display. The display will go live on November 6th. Entries are due by Sunday, October 31. Please see the website: for information on how to participate. Projects in progress are welcome in the Display.

Web Minister Baron Symon of Barnesdale:

No Report

Chronicler Baron Kendrick del Grenewode:

There will be a special issue of the Miniscule published on October 6th, with the amendments.

Dance Mistress Lady Aelia Fortunata:

Keep your eyes peeled and feet ready for an upcoming announcement.

Gold Key Baroness Alanna of Skye:

Reminder that Gold Key is looking for a replacement. General duties are arranging to get donations from and loaner garb to Carolingians, getting some (not all) loaner garb to Carolingian events (you can arrange help to do this), and finding storage for approximately a dozen storage tubs. Please email and/or for more information. 

Historian Mistress Eowyn Eilownwy of Alewife Brook:

No Report

Liber Editor Lord Orlando dei Medici:

No Report

Marshal-Fence Lord Zohane Faber:

No Report

Marshal-Archery Master Peter the Red:

A reminder, that Canton of the Towers archery may be shot any day by appointment, as well as the routine Sunday meeting. Anyone willing to drive from Alewife station to Carlisle on Saturday or Sunday, please contact Peter the Red so that rides may be arranged for those who are dependent on the T.

Archery Marshals must send in their reports ASAP.

Marshal-Thrown Weapons Lady Deirdre Greenwode:

No Report

Minister of the Lists Lord Trentus Nubianus:

No Report

Steward Lord Zohane Faber:

No Report

Clerk of the Stable Etain ingen Ut Neill:

No Report

Social Media Officer Lady Caterina Genevra Beltrami:

Facebook and associated apps were down today. Please remember that official announcements should be posted to the e-mail list as well as Facebook, to make sure every person is properly informed. Please make sure you are on the e-mail list as a precaution against future outages. 


Order of the Moon 

No Report.

Order of the Daystar

No Report

Order of the Perseus Pandaulf

The order will be having a meeting in two weeks. 

Perseus meeting 
Monday, October 18 · 7:30 – 8:30pm 
Google Meet joining info 
Video call link: 
Or dial: ‪(US) +1 337-340-3261‬ PIN: ‪362 915 228‬# 
More phone numbers: 

As usual, please suggest any potential candidates to all orders.

Order of the Comet

No Report


Needleworkers Etain ingen Ut Neill:

The meeting will be 6:30 on the 18th. Email going out tomorrow. Please suggest topics of interest for this meeting or future ones.

Jongulers Lady Ysabel da Costa:

The Waytes are back to something resembling our regular pre-pandemic schedule, meeting at Ysabel’s house most Monday nights at 7:30 (except when that conflicts with Council).  Meetings are listed in the calendar on the Baronial web site.  If you like to play instrumental ensemble music, please join us!  Contact the Waytes Captain at for more information.


Otter’s Welcome Astridr Eiriksdottir

We’re hoping to hold Otter’s welcome next May 14th or 21st. The 21st is preferred for weather. This should be, as usual, a newcomer focused event. Please consider what you can showcase, we want to cover as many roles as possible. Children’s activities are also welcome at Family Point. We may have space for merchants. A deposit is being held, they have offered an intermediate (11 hour) option. We hope to have 175-200 people, with reasonable fees to encourage participation. Hoping to have an “Adult with school ID” option to attract college students. There may be a family cap. There may be an attendance cap of 250, revisited if the Covid numbers are good closer to the event. Site tokens are desired as an attractive item for newcomers. There is no current intention of a dayboard or feast for health reasons. The site contract has been delivered to the seneschal. 

The council is requested to approve the signing of the contract prior to the November meeting. 

The council approves pending finance committee approval.
If you would like to volunteer for Otter’s, please contact Astridir at

Winter Heraldic Display Lord Richard Heyworth:

I would like to run an online heraldic display event in January. Resources needed will only include a Zoom room, though obviously I’ll need volunteers to help man it, etc, which I’ll solicit once it’s approved. The event will cover various aspects of heraldic display. How to use a badge, how to display your heraldry, etc. This should be a small, linear sort of event. 

Patience: Would a budget for items to display items be needed?

Richard: No. We can use existing banners.

Patience: To clarify, would raw materials be needed to demonstrate techniques?

Senescshal: There is a $50 dollar stipend available to Golden Gryphon.

Richard: There is no need expected.

Seneschal: If money is required approach the finance committee.

Unknown: Banners were created for EK 50 year.

Unkown: Banners for Carolingia might be useful.

Seneschal?: There may be a budget available for that

Crown Tourney Feeder 

Unknown: What is the current state of the Barony’s finances?

Exchequer: The Crown Tourney Feeder netted $320, Carolingia’s share is $160. Carolingia’s bank accounts currently contain $16,000.

The council is requested to approve donation of Crown Feeder Tourney share to Kingdom.

The council approves this donation to Kingdom.

Carolingia 50 Year

Patience: Has there been any progress on 50 year?

Seneschal: We are still looking for an autocrat for Baronial 50 year.

Per their Excellencies, it may make sense to delay it one more year?

Lady Patience Faircloth volunteers to autocrat 50 year in 2023.

The Seneschal requests a formal proposal for the event for November council.

Patience agrees.

By-Laws Review:

  • It’s that time again! We have a few very important changes that will be implemented to the By-Laws at this time to bring us in line with Corpora: 
    • We are removing gendered language from the By-Laws. 
      • The changes will be available on request to those who would like to see the document in revision. None of the changes fundamentally change the way the By-Laws are implemented, and so are not an amendment as much as a grammar correction. 
    • Per Corpora, we can no longer call our By-Laws by the name By-Laws. 
      • To bring us in line with our governing documents, and under advisement from Kingdom, we are using the term Policies. 
      • This change also means that our now Policies are part of our Charter. The changes to bring the Policies into the body of the document of our Charter is not a simple one, or one that will be undertaken until such time as our current Amendment Proposal cycle is done. 
      • The process of bringing the Policies into the Charter will be completed between now and March 7th, 2022 (the March 2022 Council Meeting) so that the revised document can be circulated for review and voted on at the April 2022 Council meeting. 
      • This will put the Policies review back into its original Spring timeslot, which is the dearest wish of our Baron, Baroness, and Seneschal. 

Proposed Amendment 1 Eowyn:

[This section would get inserted near the begining, between “Purpose” and “Section I. Officers”.]

In this document, unless explicitly stated otherwise, all references to officers, cantons, orders, or any other positions or groups shall be held to refer to Carolingian entities.  Also, unless explicitly stated otherwise, all references to guilds and boroughs shall be held to refer to such groups that have received Carolingian charters.

The intent is to add definitions to simplify and clarify terms throughout the policies.


Zohane: There is a concern about tracking chartered and active guilds.

Seneschal: The seneschal’s office keeps a list of chartered and active guilds.

Unknown: In some cases physical charters were not actually created, even though a charter was given. However, this doesn’t have a bearing on the proposed amendment. 

Fortunata: Dance Master/Mistress is not technically a guild, but has a vote.It also doesn’t have levels and such like the guilds.

Seneschal: A guild is not required to have levels and things. A guild continues the appreciation of an art and pushes the art in the barony. 

Eowyn: The history of Carolingia is such that, in the early times, everyone went to Dance Practice. It was unusual step, but Carolingia appointed it’s Dance Master/Mistress as an officer because it was a role that applied to the entire barony..

Thomas: Where do we make the distinction between an officer of the Barony versus a guild mistress?

Seneschal: The official list shows Dance as an officer. Roles that lead people within the Barony get a seat on the council.

Seneschal: We will be moving forward with the wording as proposed.

Proposed Amendment 2 Frithuric:

This would add section 6.G to postpone/suspend policy review in the event of a seneschal or coronet transition.

VI.G. The annual review of the By-Laws, including proposals and voting, shall not fall within 6 weeks of a change of Seneschal or Baronial Seat. If an unexpected transition occurs during the process, then the process will be suspended for 6 weeks and continue after that.

The intent is to reduce stress during the transition, and give the relevant officers time to get their bearings.


Unknown: Is the word “unexpected” necessary?

Frithuric: If it is an expected change, the timing may be moved up. 

Frithuric agrees that “unexpected” is not necessary, and will be removed.

Thomas suggests ‘shall not fall within 6 weeks “following” a transition’ in order to avoid invalidating approved bylaws changes after the fact.

Frithuric agrees and will add the text.

Unknown: Why is the Baronage included, they have no input on policy?

Frithuric: The hope is that active and engaged coronets will be involved, and that the disruption of assuming office is difficult.

Deirdre Greenwoode: We’re not suggesting it for any other officer change, why the coronet?

Fiore: Baron and Baroness do not and should not have a vote in council, but they are on the financial committee, which puts them in a unique category. 

Donato: We have a two part system, which has a legal and ceremonial head, and I feel respecting the transition of both is reasonable.

Caterina Ginerva: Seneschal is the Legal representitive. Elections shift around, and baronial appointments are dependent on royal progress. Combined with no Council in August, this produces the potential for a large block of unavailable time.

Thomas: Same concern as Caterina, especially since it’s actually desirable to have the coronet and seneschal change at different times. The exchequer is on the finance committee but we aren’t considering a pause for them. 

Aaradyn: I intend to request an extension at end of term to separate the two transitions. This past year has been especially bad for transitions. 

Deirdre: If the Baronage because they’re on the financial committee then should we have a pause for the exchequer as well?

Zohane: If a year passes without a policy review, why is that critical. Which makes the timing issue less of a concern.

Frithuric: I feel that transitioning the Baronial heads is more effort than other officers. It took 40 people to transition this most recent time. This proposal arose from personal experience this year. If we are concerned about the loss of time, we could reduce the offset to 4 weeks. 

Margretta: Speaking as an author of the policies, and the person who started the amendment process on her second meeting as seneschal. The annual review is specified in policy, and postponing beyond that is not a good idea. And blocking of a large portion of the calendar is a concern, but we should separate coronet and seneschal transitions.

Ysabel: Does this need to be formalized? Can we just do it as a suggestion?

Aaradyn: This was tried this time, and the current understanding of the policies is that the review must move forward once started. This policy is a specific response to that.

Frithuric: It’s easier to remember that the problem exists if it is in the policy.

Donato: The change of coronet often results in other officers changing due to active people having multiple roles.

Thomas: I strongly support a pause, including the coronets. But will support the amendment regardless of their invlusion.

Patience: The process not being able to be paused is brutal and I support a pause before as well as after. Anything that can make this easier for the new officers is important.

Caterina: If 6 weeks was arbitrary do we want to set the term to one month, so it’s one full council meeting. But I am concernedthat the pause is not enough, and the “no stop after start” may need to be mitigated.

Unknown: Possibly change the text to “up to six weeks” to allow flexibility?

Irini: Is the “it can’t be stopped” thing in the bylaws, a kingdom mandate or what?

Aaradyn: It’s not in the bylaws. It was a consensus of council. The fact that the policy review is a 3.5 month process may be the reason that this consensus exists, and this may need to be fixed. It’s 9:00 and there is more to be covered. Frithuric, do you want to include this in this policy review or wait for the next one?

Frithuric: Let’s proceed with this version, as it exists and revise it for next time if neccesary.

Proposed Amendment 3 Aneshka

Changes regarding grammar, baronial arms, and gendered language


Aaradyn: None of these change the intent or meaning of the policies, a vote is not required.

Zohane: I do not believe that is the case. A vote is required except in cases where the change is dictated by higher authority.

Aaradyn: Would a show of hands be sufficient at the next council meeting?

Eadgyth: A show of hands is not always the approach, especially when policy is concerned, a formal vote by members of the Great council may be necessary.

Aaradyn: The changes will be listed individually on the formal text on Tuesday.


Eowyn: Non-SCA: Remember to vote in municipal elections in MA, before council.