Great Council Minutes March 7 AS LV (2022) 7:30 PM

Great Council Minutes March 7 AS LV (2022) 7:30 PM

Coronets Nobildonna Fiore Leonetta Bardi and Lord Frithuric Ulman:

Good to see everyone at events and local practices and such. Fencing, fighter practice, Archery. Baroness has been in contact with the MFA, but we don’t have a tour arranged yet. 


Seneschal Lady Aaradyn Gyoot

We received 7 proposed amendment to the current Carolingian policy. We will review those after the rest of the meeting. The amendments should be in your email at this time.  
A reminder for discussion, it cannot happen on facebook as FB is not an official communication for the barony. Make sure all discussion happens on the barony e-mail list.

Seneschal of the Canton of the Towers: Lord Thorvald Olafsson Kveld-Hrútssonar

The canton will hold a business meeting on the 20th. The Canton is looking to start an outdoor fighter practice in Haverill as it warms up.

There is a demo upcoming at a Masonic lodge at 6:30 on the 22nd in Milford. Details on the (qunitavia)page?

Secretary Lord Donato Favro

No Report

Chancellor of the Exchequer Kara Irini bin Todori

No Report

Chancellor Minor Theo of Carolingia 
No Report

Chatelaine Lady Patience Faircloth

Next newcomer night, Mon Mar 28 at 7pm. It is already on the calendar, and will reoccur on the 4th Monday of every month. FB and Email will go out later this month. Please come, it is always a good time.  
Additionally, Lady Patience is looking for a deputy. If you are interested, please contact her. 

Golden Gryphon Pursuivant Richard Heyworth:

Herald officer hours are tomorrow 5:30 to 8:30 at the google meet link in the calendar invite, and other locations.

If you need Heraldry assistance, please show up.

Richard is also happy to show up at events/practices/etc now that he won’t be taking limited space from participants.

Gold Key Lady Ysabel da Costa

No Report

Knight Marshal Valerian of Somerset

Fighter practices have resumed. The will be indoors (and thus masked) until the weather warms up.

Minister of Arts & Sciences Maestra Cathain Ritter

No Report

Web Minister Magister Symon of Barnesdale

No Report

Chronicler Master Gunðormr Dengir:

No Report

Dance Lady Aelia Fortunata

There is an upcoming out of kingdom virtual dance event. Earldomere is hosting it’s annual Step Sprightly online. Sat Mar 12. There is a panel of classes set up. Please check it out if you are interested. There is a FB event listing, which will be forward to the Dance email list.

It is now possible to reserve rooms at the presentation school foundation community center. If the reservation is approved, Dance practice will resume. On bus routes, there is parking. In Brighton.

Clock: Is this primarily a European Rennaisance or?

This practice is European Social Dance. England, France, Italy, in sets. Everything is taught and called. Extremely newcomer friendly.  640 Washington St, Brighton

There is a middle eastern dance practice at the Cambridge War Memorial alongside fencing practice in Thursdays. $7/person. Parking available.

Historian Mistress Eowyn Eilownwy of Alewife Brook

Lady Aaradyn has sorted out items for which digitization is not permitted. The majority of it is not really appropriate for Carolingia’s Historian to hold (excess copies, or not relevant to Carolingia and archived elsewhere). These will be offered to those who are interested, starting with the Barony.  
Patience: How will the list be sent out?

Eowyn: Undecided

When the historian stuff was resorted, and there is now one extra plastic storage box available. If an officer needs this contact Eowyn.

Liber Editor Lord Orlando dei Medici
Liber was last fully updated 3 years ago, and at the time, there was some feeling it has served it’s purposes, led be Lord Orlando. There was a push to keep it operating, but Lord Orlando has come to agree that it is no longer necessary.

Patience: Patiences agrees that the liber should be retired, partly for safety reasons, as it exposes mundane contact information that can be used by hostile individuals.

Ysabel: Ysabel does consult the Liber regularly to match mundane and SCA names for individuals of facebook. She does understand Patience’s point, and would get as much use out of the Liber if it were just a Mundane/SCA name lookup table.

Eowyn: Agrees with Patience’s point, but she uses a paper copy of the Liber for the name matching function. It is also useful for identifying who is and isn’t Carolingian.

Zohane: In the instance Patience cited, the information was exposed because they were Baron and Baroness, since subject to a rules change. 

Guinemer?: Knows of instances where individuals have had to remove themselves from the Liber for safety reasons. The proof that it is not needed is the extremely limited number of requests for the liber in recent history.

Pandaulf: The liber provides contact information for Baronial officers, an important thing if officers with signing authority disappears. This doesn’t need to be the liber, but some list is needed in critical situations. 

Aaradyn: This would only be a concern for non-warranted officers, but this is something that could be held by the Seneschals office.

Cathain: Information on paid members in Carolingia is available for things like voting, so that might be an option.

Aaradyn: Carolingia has a history of ideologically unpaid members, and neglecting them is an issue.

Orlando: It sounds like people do want an SCA-Mundane lookup table, but that’s the limit. Lord Orlando proposes this.

Proposal Vote: Passes by greater than 50%, the liber will fill this new role.

Marshal Fence Lord Zohane Faber

No Report

Marshal Archery Master Peter the Red

Archery practice is occurring. Contact Peter at the archery marshal email if interested. Masks are not required outdoors. Proof of vaccination or negative Covid test is required.  
Peter is offering to help people make Visby style body armor parts that you can rivet together for Combat archery, at material costs.

Notes: Covid contact tracing is not required for activities. 

Ysabel: Please release a complete rule set with every change, in order to facilitate proper compliance. 

Tasha: The e-mail contains complete rules.

Aaradyn: This will be brought to Maeve

Arlyana: The complete rules are not listed every time.

Katla: A link to “gate in the box” provides a single spot to look. 

Marshal Thrown Weapons Lady Dierdre Greenwode

No Report

Minister of the Lists Lord Trentus Nubianus

No Report

Steward Lord Zohane Faber

No Report

Clerk of the Stable Etain ingen Ut Neill

No Report

Social Media Officer Lady Caterina Genevra Beltrami

No Report

Principals of Baronial Orders 

Order of the Daystar Lord Guinemar d’Anglade

If you see something, say something. You do not need to be a member of the order to make a recommendation. Now that the Moon is scheduled, a Daystar meeting will be scheduled shortly. If you don’t receive the e-mail, or you know you aren’t on the list, contact Guinemar.

Order of the Moon Lady Eleanor Catling:

If you see something, say something. You do not need to be a member of the order to make a recommendation. 

Meeting on Sunday the 20th from 2:30 to 3:30, link in the e-mail. If you are not on the list, please contact Eleanor immediately.

Order of Perseus Lord Pandaulf:

If you see something, say something. You do not need to be a member of the order to make a recommendation. 


Needleworkers Etain ingen Ut Neill

Meeting on the 24th at 6:30. (4th Thursday). It will be posted shortly.

Low Company Master Justin du Coeur

No Report


No Report

Calligraphers Lady Aaradyn Ghyoot:

No Report


The East Goes East: Patience Faircloth & Sugawara

The event went very well. Approximately 130-140 people signed up, and there was an average of 50 people online at any time through the day. The schedule started with 24 classes, 22-23 of them actually happened. There are no recording of the classes, but that is something that might be added if the event is held again.

Thank you to all teachers and volunteers, and thank you if you attended.

Their Royal Highnesses attended and enjoyed the event.

Richard: Was there a court?

The Coronets welcomed people to the event, but there was no court.

Frithuric: Thank you to Patience and Sugawara. 

Patience: Thank you for allowing us to put this event together on short notice.

Carolingian Midwinter: Clockwork


Ivan is unable to reschedule the event, so Clock has offered to try to move forward with the event as a spring event. Likely the first weekend in April, and the Insurance Certificate will transfer due to Covid policy changes.

Does it need to go on the EK calendar early?

Patience: Do small local events need to/should they go on the EK calendar?

Aaradyn: This is a formal event, and thus likely needs to go on the Kingdom Calendar. I will follow up on the required lead time. (Tasha: There is nothing in EK law fixing a lead time)

We need to vote on this now for it to happen in the first weekend in April. If details are not available, we need to vote to allow the Financial committee to approve this.

Renamed to “A Gathering of Fools”. Sunday April 3rd. Approved pending financial committee approval.

Aaradyn: Please put out information ASAP.

50 Year:

No Update.

Otter’s Welcome: Astrid

No Update.

Falling Leaves: Katla

Falling Leaves 2022

Pending contract signing, Falling Leaves is scheduled for Saturday 9/10 to Sunday 9/11. It will be a two day event but there will be no overnight camping. We have the site on Friday 9/09 for setup. Over the next few weeks I will be putting together a list of staff needed for the event. People who volunteered for 2019 Falling Leaves will get right of first refusal for their volunteer job. Please direct any volunteer offers to my email Katla of Viborg <>. 

Cathain: Will equestrians will be able to stay overnight?

Katla: I need to confirm with the site.

Donato: Is it possible to leave gear on site?

Katla: I will check if a lockable building is available.

Policy Review

Proposed Amendments to Carolingia Policy

March 7th, 2022

Policy Amendment 1: Expand the definitions section. This supports more concise text

elsewhere in the policies.

– Baronage

Any combination of seated coronets be they single or a couple. May also be

referred to as the baronial seat or the coronet.

This triggers a replacement of all the varieties of “baron and/or the baroness” with simply “the

baronage.” This also neatly removes all the gender specific B&B references.

– Official Channels of Communication

All official announcements and communications must be made through the

baronial email list. It is preferred to include these in the newsletter and/or read

them into Great Council minutes as the timeline permits. This shall be referred to

in the polices as official channels.

This triggers a replacement of all varieties of “any official means of communication including

email lists and newsletters” with simply “official channels”. It extracts the definition such that any

future changes in this line can be made in the single place

Policy Amendment 2: Make explicit that the baronage does not sit on the Great Council.

Insert I.E.2.

The baronage holds no voting seat on the council but may address the council as

members of the populace.

Policy Amendment 3: Empower the seneschal to allow amendments out of schedule.

Amend VI.F to include “at least once:”

The seneschal must ask the populace for suggested amendments to the policies at least

once per calendar year.

Policy Amendment 4: A change to Section VI. Policies Amendments sub-section F.

The original reads:

The Seneschal must ask the populace of Carolingia for suggested amendments to the

policies once per calendar year.

My proposal reads:

The Seneschal must ask the populace of Carolingia for suggested amendments to the

policies at least once every other calendar year.

I believe this allows leeway for needed changes (a new award being added, for example),

without forcing the issue on years when no one has anything of import to add.

Policy Amendment 5: Section I. Officers

G. Removal of Officers

4. Guilds will be considered to be in abeyance if the guild has not had a meeting at least

once in the previous four months. Heads of guilds that are in abeyance do not have a

voting seat on the Great Council.


I propose to change this to:


4. If a guild has not held a meeting at least once in the previous four months, it will be

considered to be in abeyance. The head of any guild that is in abeyance does not have

a voting seat on the Great Council. Once a guild in abeyance holds a

publicly-announced meeting, it will be considered to be active again, and will regain its

voting seat on the Great Council.


This cleans up the grammar of this section, & also includes the requirement for recognizing a

re-activated guild.

Policy Amendment 6: Policy Amendment Review Procedure

The current section on Policy Amendments reads as such:

Section VI. Policies Amendments

B. The proposed amendment will be published on the website and on any official

communications medium such as the newsletter and electronic mail list at least one month prior

to vote.

C. The amendment will be voted upon by Great Council at the first business meeting after the

one-month period has elapsed.

Currently, this process takes many months: (using the current schedule and current dates)

– February Council: Announcement of Policy Review and Call for Amendments

– March Council: Distribution of Current Policy Amendments

– April Council: No vote, or change in Council Date to accommodate 1 month from

publishing (in the past this was pushed to the next Council instead of moving the date)

– May Council: Vote (assuming the April Council Date was not moved)

This is, to me, far too long. A swifter series of discussions and vote would serve the Barony


Proposed Changes to Section VI, B and C:

B. The proposed amendment will be published on the website and on any official

communications medium such as the newsletter and electronic mail list within 3 calendar days

of the Council where the proposed amendments are distributed.

1. If the wording of the Amendments changes during the discussion at the Council where

the proposed amendments are distributed, the revised wording is due to the Seneschal

no less than 24 hours after Council ends.

2. Discussion on the Amendments will take place at the Council Meeting where the

proposed amendments are distributed and after Council on the Barony email list.

3. There will be time allotted for discussion and final questions before the Vote at the next

scheduled Council meeting.

C. The amendment will be voted upon by Great Council at the next scheduled business


Policy Amendment 7: Fixing the Date of Policy Review

Addendum to Section VI. Policies Amendments

F. Policy Review shall take place between February and April.

Ysabel: The 4 month seems short.

Various: This is in Abeyance for Covid, and the 4 months isn’t a change from the past.

Pandaulf proposes a change in wording to allow for extenuating circumstances. 

Guinemer: When this was written no one envisioned SCA rules preventing meetings.

Donato: Meetings are possible, but just make it “at the Seneschal’s discretion”.

Patience: Extenuating circumstances are definitely needed.

Ysabel: Allow the senschal to suspend or not.

Frithuric: Make it a rule suspension, not an individual suspension.

Katla: Why not require nominal meetings?

Ysabel: Online meetings don’t serve a purpose for some guilds, and requiring them is pointless.

Guinemer: Suspend the policy, not the guilds.

Patience: Carolingians love their rules, and requiring guilds to be active isn’t excessive. Requiring people to hold a meeting to prevent the guild from going into abeyance tends to force discussions.

Donato: Allowing discretion is the correct approach.

Frithuric: What are the consequences of going into abeyance. The only penalty spelled out is the lose of vote (money is not spelled out), and this is correctable by having the meeting.

Guinemer: This hasn’t been a problem during the pandemic, why are we complicating things?

Donato: It’s good to make the rules match reality. 

Richard: We violated a rule for two years without consequences, we need to be aware of that sort of thing.

Guinemer: That is evidence that the rule may need to be fix. 

Clockwork: We have the complicated rules specifically so we can nitpick them. 

Patience: Why do we have this rule at all? Maybe the past two years are evidence that this rule is not necessary.

Richard: It may be better to add a rule that allows council to suspend rules than adding an exception to each and every single rule.

Donato: Something that ages out inactive guilds isn’t a bad thing. Adding some sort of discretion isn’t a bad thing.

Frithuric: The rule does serve a purpose.

Additional Discussion…

Peter: Why not give a seat to the Baronage?

Aaradyn: The Barony was founded on a separation between game and business.

Guinemer: Carolingian policies do not list the Baronage.

Donato: Why don’t the Baronage have a seat. They are the the only role directly elected by the populace.

Guinemer: There is no requirement that the Crown follow the vote, although there is no evidence that they haven’t.

Eowyn: Proposed amendments 3, 4, and 7 are mutually exclusive. As is the fixed period. These amendments may need to be combined/modified during discussion to settle to a single preferred approach.

General announcements: 

Congrats Cathain, Katla, and Ysabel.

Archers would like to hold a spring thing as a very large practice.

Peter will be making stamps for her highnesses favors.